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In the context of the Cultural Policy Circle of the ENA Institute, the historian Menelaos Charalambidis talks with the journalist Dimitris Maniatis, on the occasion of the recent release of his book "The dosilogoi" (Alexandria publications). The book is the product of deep research that sheds light on one of the darkest aspects of our history, perhaps the darkest and most silenced: the collaboration of Greeks with the Nazi authorities during the Occupation. It highlights the extent and scope of this collaboration. It examines the structural relationship between them and the temporalities they present. It deals with the historical continuities, causes, roots and interconnection with the events that developed in parallel, but also with those that followed. It describes the uncontrollable savagery and horror of the sub-state that was the so-called "Greek Occupation", highlighting even more how heroic the Resistance was. It recalls the injustice of impunity after the war, as well as the politics of forgetting and silences in the following years and decades. It speaks of this deep collective trauma that was left open, with consequences that reach to this day. Expanding on the above, the discussion also extends to broader questions about the current state of historical science on topics that are considered difficult, such as this one. About the role of public history and the history that is alive around us meeting mass interest to a surprising extent. For history and memory, against silence and oblivion, as a condition for critical thinking and a resource for the citizen. We sincerely thank M. Charalambidis and D. Maniati for the interview. Also, we thank K. Aggelakos and St. Tataki, filmmakers, for their voluntary assistance in the creation of the audio-visual material. Finally, we express our thanks to the Technopolis of the Municipality of Athens for the kind concession of the New Ovens hall.