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Alexander Kluge and Anselm Kiefer are engaged in historical deep drilling and highly topical diagnosis of the present. In doing so, they are sharpening our poetic awareness of what keeps our diverse times together. The conversation provides an insight into their joint book "Cleverness is the art of remaining true under different circumstances," in which the authors allow images and texts to oscillate into one another. More information about the book: http://shrk.vg/KlugheitIstDieKunst-Y