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It is a paradox of our time: it would like to be emancipated from all dogma, freed from all codes, it would like to be free, it no longer believes in anything and yet it has never been so moralistic. Everywhere the leagues of virtue judge and condemn. If this paradox of a morality that is both omnipresent and evanescent, that the philosopher Rémi Brague wanted to explore in a book entitled "Morality put back in its place". To dialogue with him, Eugénie Bastié invites the philosopher Michel Onfray, a free thinker who himself defines himself as an "ascetic hedonist".