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Using a cell phone during class or morally offending a classmate or teacher, which of the two occurrences is more serious? Offending, of course. The answer may seem unequivocal, but the fact is that, in the day-to-day running of schools, things get mixed up, the signs are reversed, punishments lose their meaning and the environment ends up becoming toxic. This is the summary of the diagnosis made by Telma Vinha, professor of educational psychology at Unicamp and researcher in moral education. In this interview, the specialist talks about different coexistence problems that arise in schools, the importance of knowing how to distinguish them and how to find strategies to solve them.